Two Force & Law:Four the multiplicity feel feel think think

Enneachat is hosted by Katherine Chernick Fauvre and David W. Fauvre, MA, co-founders of Enneagram Explorations found online at http://www.Enneagram.net

Two Force & Law:Four the multiplicity feel feel think think

Postby Kitchen Fly » Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:36 am

I was observing some of my Friends ( lie ) discussing the energy of point nine on the EDB,. the brains trust had much wisdom to shear,( lie ) but every now and again, some one hits the nail on the head.( truth ) Menuet hit the nail on the head.


Quote:
I disagree that Nines are good liars. They can deny the truth or "forget" it, even if it's plain as day, but that's not making up stories, or even twisting facts. It's ignoring facts that upset them, or just a kind of laziness or fuzziness in recollection.

People in the Feeling Triad are good liars. I'm an incredibly good liar. I can make people believe all kinds of things about myself and events that aren't true. I can tell stories one way to make you think X, or another way to make someone else think Y. For most of my life, I didn't see it as lying because my feelings were true, whether the facts supported them or not, and how I felt mattered more than the truth. And with all this "emotion" behind it, most people believed what I told them, especially because I'm usually reserved. Yes, some Twos, Threes, and Fours are transparent, but you are underestimating us if you think you can see though all the lies. We don't even know where the lying starts and the truth begins sometimes. The lying can run so deep that we don't even know it's there.


EDB -[menuet]
Focused Enneagram Discussion-The best liars -Posted - 08 Apr 2014 : 10:07:16 AM

Wow menuet just nailed it, HB pointed out the obvious that would never be acknowledged if not pointed out ( The best liar is a person identified with its fixation and who has forgotten everything else. )



What menuet is touching upon is is very much what I am trying to describe in these diagrams about two force (at zero at point nine and nine at point nine) and the multiplicity (Law:four) and two forms of think and feel one instinctive and one personality as if one I and one E ( I being introverted as if Instinctual and one E being extroverted as if personality expressed )

The title of this topic post my seem correct but also incorrect, and that is true. There seems to be more than one operation working within the mechanism that I am trying to understand.

One tear of what seem to be an engagement of more that one tear is synonyms with the title; Two Force & Law:Four the multiplicity feel feel think think.

The simplest analogy is a time clock. To look at it for its purpose needed, it has an hour hand a minute hand and a second hand, and thats about it that we may recognise as we tell the time from it the clock. But the clock has more than one tear of mechanical operation, within the clock there are an array of objects, a mechanise of cogs so the structure remains true to its operational purpose as a time machine ( lie ) time mechanism a clock. I have a time machine in my shed that only type nines are allowed to ride in.! ( kookoo ) clock.

Back to topic..

The second hand reminds me of I and E ,it travels around the face of the clock moving and stoping, the moving could be thought of as E and the stoping could be thought of as I, At the beginning of the minute could be E for Extraversion and at the end of its circuit moving from the 59th second mark - to the new minute ,could be placed I for Introversion, it has completed its 60 second cycle. Don't get to hooked on this analogy because I believe the circle of the enneagram moves in two directions. So it could be I/E or E/I or I&E / E&I or E&I / I&E or I&E / I&E or E&I / E&I or E&E / I&I ,But for this example I will do the diagram as follows.



...……….. E/I
...……….. I/E



Think………………Feel
..Feel………………Think





..At the Instinctive level




...…..Intuit / Think




..Feel………………Sense





I suspect……….....I Feel a part
the Tribe……….....Of the Tribe



I need to………...…I Serve
Understand..……...the Tribe
the Tribe






Perhaps it would be easier to simplify the diagram and leave some actions of the instinctive mechanism out of the picture.





….... Direct Cognition
...……….. E/I




Think………………Feel…………… Feel is linked to Introversion ( I ) Thinking triad is sensed.
..Feel………………Think.………… Think is linked to Extraversion ( E ) Thinking triad is intuited.






...……….. E/I




Think………………Feel…………… Feel is linked to Introversion ( I ) ,perhaps at one level of the instinct operations,. for the 3w2 the line from point three to point nine.
..Feel……………..Think..………… Think is linked to Extraversion ( E ) ,perhaps at one level of the instinct operations,. for the 3w4 the line from point three to point four.





...……….. E/I




Think………………Feel…………… Personality level, triad level, feeling feelings sensed. ( E ) influenced ( Extraversion links with sense at point three ) as if perhaps A go to B goes to C and returns to A as ( Feeling )
..Feel……………...Think..…………Instinct level, emotion sensed, Think. ( I ) influenced ( Introversion links with think at point nine ) C and "C" the multiplicity Thinking and Feeling are Sensed. ( feel ) ,are sensed. (Think )





The interesting thing about this component is that it can be looked at all most in two ways and even three ways:


As two ways:



I suspect……….....I Feel a part
the Tribe……….....Of the Tribe





I need to…...………...…I Serve
Understand….....……...the Tribe
the Tribe






...…..Intuit... / ...Think




...Feel….………………Sense






..and the second way:



I suspect……….....I Feel a part
the Tribe……….....Of the Tribe
.6w7…………………….3w2

Point:6……………….Point:3

.6w5…………………….3w4
I need to………...…I Serve
Understand..……...the Tribe
the Tribe




- I suspect the Tribe; as being an energy agenda of Intuits at Nine At Point:Nine ,. and also 6w7 instinctive agenda , linked with SP ,at point:2 - Sp/sx.

- Feel a part Of the Tribe; as being an energy agenda of, Think at Zero At Point:Nine ,. and also 3w2 instinctive agenda , linked with SO at point:8 So/sp.

- I Serve the Tribe; as being an energy agenda of, Sense at point:3 ,. and also 3w4 instinctive agenda , linked with SO at point:7 So/sx.

- I need to Understand the Tribe; as being an energy agenda of, Feel at point:6 ,. and also 6w5 instinctive agenda , linked with SP at point:1 Sp/so.




I suspect……….....I Feel a part
the Tribe……….....Of the Tribe



I need to………...…I Serve
Understand..……...the Tribe
the Tribe



But then there is also another tear that is what seems a switching mechanism. I have mentioned it in to forms within my model:

4 Boundaries 3 Segments

1 ------- 0

1 ------- 1

But I do not even know where to start with this component, I have thought of the value: 0 as being linked with point:3 but I have had other thought to and that is something I will have to think about when my mind wants to think about it. Perhaps more needs to be worked out first and then it will pop in to place because the foreground work has been done sufficiently to see its mechanical operation within the designs pattern. But I all so had or have an other one some where in my writings and I think it was shapes with these values:


4 ------- 1

4 ------- 4


But do not take my word as gospel, I can not quite remember the context but it looks like a five dot thing or should I say component. To many things to think about it is wrecking my brain. just get this much complexity structured. And I feel like I am only scratching the surface, well maybe a little deeper than a scratch of the level of complexity, I would like to address. So that is enough I have been backwards and forwards backwards and forwards to and from this post so have a read of the rest and I will get back to it then I feel motivated and keen to think about the complexity within the model. Actually I may have done better than I realise and embodied the basics reasonably well.

I will let it rest for now and read it over the week end or tomorrow and have a think about what I think of it as a body of work.



DO + DO=36
TI + RE = 26
LA + MI = 26
SO + FA = 26
.........….. 114

45+54+45 = 114


mark anthony rockliff - 19 Sep 2013 8:10:49pm

Part: 2 of 2

461.114


4 + 4 = 8 eight master genes
6 + 4 =10 law:10
1 + 1 = 2 cause and effect

Decimal point: reconciliation

Decimal point: value one.

1+1+1+4= 10

4+6+1 = 11


Implicate end: 1 ------- 0 Cercle of the enneagram

Absolute:centre.............. Universe: Intelligent Enneagram

Implicate end: 1 ------- 1 Centre of the enneagram


4 Boundaries 3 Segments

1 ------- 0

1 ------- 1


144 - 114 = 30

A decimal point, 122 zeros and something like a 138 at the end.


144 and 114 & 122 and 138 , 122 114 , 2+2 = 4

144 and 114 & 122 and 138 , 144 , 4+4 = 8

144 and 114 & 122 and 138 , 1+1+1 = 3


1__ and 1__

.01

1 ------- 0 :The zero

1 ------- 1 :The one

At this point I start to think of Strings and the possibility that the Absolute is represented in all living cells and via the Atom within.

And that: 1 --- 1 and 1 --- 0 , are related to zero to nine and before and after the decimal point or each side of the decimal point and the decimal point I think of as a representation of the centre of the Intelligent enneagram and the implicate of the dynamic of the absolute and its functionality within the workings of the explicate.

And that is about as far as I have lateral think ed Professor Leonard Susskind and Professor Brian Greene curiosity about the very long number they spoke of.

mark anthony rockliff - 12 Sep 2013 1:32:19am









Quote:

Nines are the best liars of the enneagram.

Three's are easy to peg as liars. Bragging, boasting, and hyperbole colors their language.

Nines on the other hand are calm and at ease. It's almost like they actually believe the lie or want to.

It's very convincing. The wing doesn't matter.

EDB -[robroy] - Posted - 06 Apr 2014 : 10:55:56 PM




I copied or cut and paste this, from my post the work load never ends an enneagram exploration.

The way I see it, all types lie because of the tension within the transaction of pitching a transaction within conversation or communication. The Passions are like a bifurcation , a safety mechanism, there is positive per pose for them to be there other wise entropy would influence the individual to became distractive. There is to much infinity within possibility and diversity of comprehension and posable interpretation and understanding. The Passions per say,. are not a bad thing , they are a mechanism,a mechanism that require our conches understanding as to the role it plays in balancing our thought body - feel body - sense body - reactions and responses.



Any way I extend these diagrams to help you build a mental picture so to say. I leave it to great communicators like A.H. Almaas to explain with ease, what I am endeavouring to unravel and understand. ( true )


I could have gone further with my diagram and explanation towards the top of this post but I got a bit solidified in thought trying to explain the three angels and the universal angel and the 6w7 , 6w5 , 3w2 , 3w4 part that is part of two parts so to say. It is universal but it is all so unique to point three the sense think feel intuit multiplicity and or feel thinking triad sense and the sense feeling triad think. ( have done more but will leave this paragraph as part of it for now until I decide what to say about it all as a commentary explanation. So to say.

As you can see there are many cogs within the back of the clock and it is complicated to explain in part portion, because there are many things happening and the parts that interconnect change as an other portion of the mechanism engages , kinda like a three into three thing. So I need to work out more of the structural play. But you can have a go and maybe you can inform me. Hear are some of my parts i am working with and on developing as componentry.

Two force is like the second hand and the law of four is like sense think feel intuit but at a feel feel think think level. Some may like to think, feel thinking sense feeling some may like to think, thinking feel feeling think, some may like to think, intuit feeling thinking sense, some may like to think, intuit thinking sense feeling. The point is that you can one face or one tear that universally describes for all ,. but it dose not individually describe what is happening in the differentiating movements of the nine energies in times movement or at the differing tears of unique differentiation between the 9 points 18 subtypes with six instinctual fluctuating variants. Well maybe it is easier than I make it out to be but I have to get my head around it and I have not worked it out yet.


The following is something I am developing:




…….. Two Force



…..….. Law four …..…..







……...… area




……. experience …….









..……...… ( 4 )






5 ……. experience ……. 5









...… Intuit / Think





Feel ..……….…… Sense









.……......… Think




…. Feel .…….…… Sense








………...… Intuit



Thinking .…..…… Feeling
. triad .…..….……. triad








(An Instinctual bifurcation action; Intuits at a 3 into 3 level) May have a direct connection with Presence and Space and Area.






..…….………....… (9)
..…….……....… Intuits







. (6) Feel …….……….…… Sense (3)
. instinct ………….….…… instinct








.…….………....… (9)
.…….……....… Intuits






(6) Thinking .………..…… Feeling (3)
….. triad .….………...……. triad









Experience has its connections to Feel & Sense ,and ……. experience ……. can be thought of as; Visceral - A Gut felt Think-ing.





……. ……. experience …….



……. Feel …………..… Sense







Area ..may have a connection to Direct Cognition, and Intuit ..may have a connection to Energy and Space. And Think ..may have a connection to Mass and Time.





……. .……...… area



……. ...… Intuit / Think





(A kinaesthetic component of minds awareness, a bifurcation between 3 into 3 ; intuits linking , 3 into 3 into 3 into 3 ,where in; "self" / "I AM" / "Physical Psyche" / and Host ,intersect.)




E.g.




……...… area ...……………...…….. "Host"




……. experience ……. ...…………. "I AM"





...… Intuit / Think .….………...….. "self"





Feel ………….…… Sense .……….. "Physical Psyche"





Maybe this may help in solving the puzzle.


Note the three sevens,. 1 & 6 = 7 , 2 & 5 = 7 , 4 & 3 = 7

Three sevens are 21 , 21 + 21 = 42 , and we can go further 6 and 15 and 21, 1+2+3=6 ,6+5+4=15 , 7+7+7=21
all three number values can be divided evenly three times,. 2+2+2= 6 , 5+5+5= 15 , 7+7+7= 21

It may seem silly to work numbers in this way but the numbers 6, 15 and 21 are interesting numbers,
you may recognise six as being interesting in an enneagram context because of the six pointed Fig.
Fifteen and twenty one are all so equally as interesting to me. For example 15 reminds me of A and B of C,
or five dots my five dot model with each dot having an A B C connection at the level of the Law of three.
Twenty one is like two peaces of bread and the meat in the model. or the coin and two sides.

Forty two, Law four and two force, and 4+2 = 6 six point Fig.



…….. Two Force



…..….. Law four …..…..





Image
Kitchen Fly
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:43 am

Re: Two Force & Law:Four the multiplicity feel feel think th

Postby Kitchen Fly » Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:38 am

4 Boundaries 3 Segments

1 ------- 0

1 ------- 1

But I do not even know where to start with this component, I have thought of the value: 0 as being linked with point:3 but I have had other thought to and that is something I will have to think about when my mind wants to think about it. Perhaps more needs to be worked out first and then it will pop in to place because the foreground work has been done sufficiently to see its mechanical operation within the designs pattern. But I all so had or have an other one some where in my writings and I think it was shapes with these values:


4 ------- 1

4 ------- 4









1 ------- 0

1 ------- 1




4 ------- 1

4 ------- 4


---------------- = 10









Four plus One = 5
Four plus One = 5
Four plus One = 5

----------------- =15




1 -------

1 ------- 1




4 -------

4 ------- 4






---------10 + 15 = 25






5……….5

.…..5

5……….5



----------25 + 5 = 30



1……….1

.…..1

1……….1






……....…......…… 2
………...….4 …....….......4

…….....4 .....…….……....…..4

…….......2 ......….…...……. 2

…..…..…...... 4 .….... 4




.



.…..…….…..Intuit ....…. Think….……...
------------M--------Y----------
--------------A----G------------
-----------------R---------------
--------------N----S-------------
------------E---------S----------
…...……......Feel ....……. Sense….……..





.
Kitchen Fly
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:43 am

Re: Two Force & Law:Four the multiplicity feel feel think th

Postby Kitchen Fly » Sat Apr 12, 2014 7:35 pm

I think,. thats about it for now.


……..….…..Intuit ....…. Think…..
------------M--------Y----------
--------------A----G------------
-----------------R---------------
--------------N----S-------------
------------E---------S----------
...…….........Feel ....……. Sense….…


It may seen silly but this abstract drawing has many layers of interpretation. Two Force and 4 Boundaries 3 Segments , two force -energy and mass, 4 Boundaries; Intuit, Think, Feel, Sense. 3 Segments - R, - A, G, S, H, - M, Y, S, E
- R could be the meat in the sandwich and - A, G, S, H, - M, Y, S, E could be the bread or the four outer dots side A & B and - R could be the meat C or "C". There are several ways of intuiting or thinking about the Abstract Drawing.
I kinda think its good art but if you think of the four words ..Intuit .… Think .… Feel …. Sense…. , along with, - A, G, S, H, - M, Y, S, E, it can all so be thought of as 3 Segments.

But two Force and 4 Boundaries and 3 Segments works nicely with this diagram two:

……....…......…… 2
………...….4 …....….......4

…….....4 .....…….……....…..4

…….......2 ......….…...……. 2

…..…..…...... 4 .….... 4

3 Segments could be seen as the: 9, 4, 5 Id, 3, 7, 8 Ego, 6, 1, 2 Supper Ego (2, 4, 4 set of three groupings) , And interestingly 2, 4, 4 set of three groupings, 9, 1, 2, & 3, 4, 5, & 6, 7, 8, or 6, 5, 4, & 3, 2, 1, & 9, 8, 7.

Any way there are lots of patterns. At the moment I am thinking about the table of because the pattern has 3 and 4 and 6 and in the 1 energy mass diagram.

Image

Call me a freak but I like to make general obvious connections. Also -Envision, a five tear structure, with forty five positions stacked like an regular square shape or an regular triangular square cone meeting at one point the R in the Phonetic spelling of the word energy,. it seems an interesting shape because synapse fire though a volume of space, and if there is an invisible third implicate that corresponds to the Higgs Boson Field then if it takes the shape of a scaffold synapse and lightning maybe following a coded path as I an instructional language path so to say kinda Idea:

01, 09, 25, 09, 01 or 25, 09, 01,09 25

What would this geometrical shape be called ? And is it a shape that is utilised in M theory, Physics describing Mass and Energy and Force, or in geometry as a number pattern component, the science that helps to explain the Three Generations of Matter particles and the force carrying particles. But I am way out of my depth, but its ok to think questions that may simulate answers for those who can generate the answer correct or incorrect.


Anyway it has been fun and interesting this last week or so. It never ceases to surprise me what the next day manifest when holding an interest within the enneagram, but I think I have reached my basic limit and so I hand ball what I as a layman value as being worth investigating on to these who can test and measure such Ideas and models I have presented.

I my self will most likely have look at the other 35 for the primary types and look at something that is over due relating to the Instincts and my table of correlations and stuff like the harmonic groupings and the six variants and the three sea saws of psicosintesis and its patterns, there must be a pattern as to why people can very-ate from there base setting, This topic began with a question about nines and three being basically liars or human trash the disdain of the thinking triad I suspect be the motive of the question writer perhaps, but the point is all types lie and the resin I think that all 18 types can have two simultaneous MBTI settings one visible that fluctuates from the primary ,. all type lie or are liars. so to say that dose not mean that all people are lies ridden human trash.

IF seem to have an angry tone it is because I recognise manipulation as a fundamental form of a lie,. and I all so recall every one on the EIDB boards informing me like parrots that my one to one correlation where or are incorrect. So please have some understanding for the hate I can still feel for those 12 disciples who assisted in running the tempo of the EIDB boards when I first presented my calibrations. So once bitten twice shy meaning I will levee knowledge gained as private victory, and reframe from shearing any patters I discover. As I am sore you can understand and respect such a discussion.

But It has been fun shearing this body of work and I wish all the readers well in there explorations of its content.


Cheers

Mark Anthony Rockliff








Image
Kitchen Fly
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:43 am


Return to Enneagram Type, Tritype and Insinctual Subtype Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron